Monday, April 16, 2007

Memory and Mind Control

One of our regular visitors asked whether we'd noticed any commands or instructions diminishing over time, and whether I need to reinforce the older ones.

That's interesting, because it's basically a test of the memory of e's subconscious, marion, to see how long she can keep something going between reminders.

So far, with one interesting exception, we haven't noticed any lapses or declines. But the way I've set up her commands may have helped us avoid the problem.

I know some other doms and dommes install many different "triggers" in their hypnotic subs. Typically the way you do this, while your subject is in a trance, is to give instructions of this sort: "After you're awake, whenever I say the word 'starfish,' you will feel an intense tingling in your genitals."

That's fine, unless you build up a huge catalog of trigger words, each with its own set of effects. I don't have experience with this, and I'd be curious to hear from others, but I would bet that you could overload some subconsciouses with too many seldom-used commands. (On the other hand, the two subconsciouses I know both tell me that they have unusually good memories.)

With e, the permanent commands aren't too numerous. There are the permanent physical effects in place -- her labia rings for instance -- which are reinforced through constant awareness. And her daily compulsions are not likely to be forgotten.

I do have a smaller set of shortcut words I use for some of her illusion scenes, which marion has memorized. For instance, one of e's favorite scenes has her being penetrated in three places at once, but unable to orgasm. There's a single word for that.

Another shortcut word sends her immediately into the woods, where she is strapped nude with her back against the rough bark of a treee, subject to my torments.

The vast majority of my effects are a different sort, and don't require much memorization. A long time ago when e was in a trance I told her that, after she was awake, she would obey any instruction preceded by a particular trigger word. I now use that word many times a day, for whatever whim is on my mind right then. It's so much easier than installing separate triggers for each one.

The one command whose effects have changed over time is a very old one. When I was busy wrapping e's life in traces of me, I told her that all voices on her car radio would be mine. For weeks, that was true -- I covered every song, I read the news and the ads. Then she came back from a trip, and oddly enough I now was filling in only for the male voices. That's the way it still is today.

I asked her subconscious about that yesterday. Turns out it was something that marion did on her own, an act of mercy. It was making e feel really weird to hear me as a woman. She much prefers me as a man.

Works for me.

10 comments:

Marc said...

As always Great to hear more from the hypnoslave

Semega said...

So marion making that change to the female voices on the radio, would you interpret that as refusing your instruction? Had she broken your command, so to speak?
As too having a "good memory" as far as instructions I wonder if a command is so complicated that the return would diminish over time? Ah so many questions, please bear with me for one more!
There is a statement said around the hypno community, that basically you can't hypnotise someone to do something that they would not do to begin with, now I'm aware that e has no limits, so to speak (at least I seem to remember you saying that), but have you tried placing an instruction that she cannot accomplish? Would this cause undue stress to her? I wouldn't want to do something upsetting, I'm just wondering if you would agree with the statement of someone doing something they wouldn't normally do?

HypnoMaster D said...

I suspect that half of what we've been told about hypnosis, and how it's supposed to work, was just made up. So I've stopped comparing e and marion against the 'rules', and am working out my own mental models for what's going on here.

e does have limits. But if I gave a sufficiently unambiguous command, marion would with great reluctance obey me and bypass those limits. I think that whoever wrote that "rule" about hypnotic limits failed to realize that the subconscious has its own ideas.

Likewise, I think marion (being a person and not a robot) does her best to carry out my wishes. While this usually means literal obedience, she sometimes faces situations where she has to guess at what I have in mind and act accordingly. She does pretty damn well.

It's interesting what happens when I tell e to do something that she is unable to do. She just stops and tells me she can't do it. It's only happened the two times I tried to get her to act drunk. Never having been more than tipsy, she really has no clue how to replicate 'drunk.'

Grey said...

I'd class it as interpreting the command rather than refusing it - happening immediately, I'd have inclined the other way and said it was a (partial) refusal. In my experience, commands get reinterpreted over time as a matter of course - which tends to erode away an unpopular command and reinforce a popular one.

As far as "can't be made to do anything you don't want to" goes, it leaves out the next line "unless you want to be made to do things" - a while back, I encountered someone who'd run into a fairly predatory (and marginally competent) hypnotist online and, in addition to the fun, semi-consensual making her do things, had planted a few suggestions she really didn't like - because she wanted to believe that hypnosis could make her do anything, she "needed" someone else to come in, bypass the defences and dismantle the rogue suggestions. Where hypnosis is concerned, what you want/believe to be true is very significant...

- grey_shadow

HypnoMaster D said...

"You can't be made to do things against your will, unless you want to be made to do things against your will."

I like it!

Semega said...

So someone can come in hypnotise a person and then remove triggers and commands implanted by someone else? I assume the difficult part would be in trying to uncover these triggers, especially if they are well hidden?

On another note, one of the things we cannot stand is the neighbors subwoofer booming and booming, low bass is something you just can't get away from, I'm wondering if you can hypnotise yourself or someone to not hear that range of noise? Plausible?

HypnoMaster D said...

Plausible? Yeah. It's easy enough to make e entirely deaf [god she hates that]. And it's easy to block out all external/distracting sounds. I would think that something with so distinct a frequency would be easy to block out. Not sure about self-hypnosis. I'm not much good at that yet...

Maybe grey shadow will tell us how he removed someone else's triggers and effects.

L.E. said...

Hmmm...are the trigger words keyed to D's voice or is there a risk that hypnoslave.e will (for example) be talking to someone and the triple-penetration trigger word will come up and she'll suddenly be unable to answer?

Grey said...

I'm reluctant to go into too much detail about what happened - apart from anything else, listing the other guy's suggestions and mistakes comes uncomfortably close to producing a "how-to" for predatory hypnosis...

A couple of points I will mention:

For the commands to have any effect, the victim's subconscious has to remember them - if you can get past any defences, finding out what needs to be taken care of is as easy as asking the question...

In this specific instance, the rogue commands were closely associated with some particularly vivid imagery so I turned that around and attacked the symbolic representations of the commands - for example, had a command been represented as a mouse, scurrying and hiding around the edges of her mind, sending something like a ferret (fast, agile, lean enough to follow it's prey anywhere, and deadly when it catches it) in would be one possibility. Another would be to launch a broad-based environmental attack like a flood or a mass fumigation - once you take control of the mindscape, you can change the rules, which gives you the advantage...

On the other hand, the point when you realise just how much control you have can tell you a lot about yourself - I'd be lying if I said I wasn't tempted to "fix" the problem by installing myself as her master in the other guy's place and fixing the defences so that it would be much, much harder for anyone else to displace me in turn. It was only for a moment, but the temptation was there...

- grey_shadow

HypnoMaster D said...

Grey_shadow, thanks for saying as much as you did... As long as we're exploring out here where hypnotherapists and stage hypnotists don't often tread, we are on our own when it comes to ethical guidelines. It's obviously best to hold oneself to a very high standard.